tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-710373573705518216.post9147977441755759116..comments2024-03-13T05:37:09.433-07:00Comments on A (soy) Bean: Dining at 4 Course Vegan with Vegetarians, Flexitarians, and Ovo-Vegans (!?)Abby Beanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03060920122127099172noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-710373573705518216.post-37519611911630258492010-09-15T22:26:20.538-07:002010-09-15T22:26:20.538-07:00I laughed out loud as I read your description of y...I laughed out loud as I read your description of your dinner with the "almost vegans." I can picture myself in that situation.<br /><br />I've met many "AVs," and I usually let them describe themselves thus without getting too upset. They seem to recognize the "almost" descriptor excludes them from the title "vegan," and I like to think they see being vegan as a goal, and they are "almost" there. <br /><br />I'm much more troubled by the vegetarians who eat fish. After delicately, and then more blatantly (fish is not a vegetable), calling out a "fish-eating vegetarian" in-law, I finally got him to see he wasn't a vegetarian. If he aspires to be a vegetarian, he needs to see that eating fish prevents him from being what he says he wants to be. <br /><br />The food looks fantastic, and reminds me of a small restaurant here called Sutra, that offers a similarly changing, exquisite four-course vegan menu with local, organic food. I'd go every week but for the cost.Andreahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16146578985330272891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-710373573705518216.post-25388594955937909822010-08-08T08:05:33.433-07:002010-08-08T08:05:33.433-07:00Hi Ariel,
Thank you for joining the conversation.
...Hi Ariel,<br />Thank you for joining the conversation.<br /><br />Honey remains in the grey area of veganism (I do not partake), but I have found that through trial, error, and research you can find a vegan substitution for just about anything. <br /><br />I would like to suggest that you absolutely acknowledge the connection between leather and it's source: bovine or otherwise. I understand that it is not cost effective for new vegans to immediately discard all of their animal-based belongings and replace with compassionate choices, but I would like to point out that there are animal-friendly options to be found at thrift stores, as well. Additionally, please consider that when you purchase pre-owned leather and wool items, you are thereby forcing those who believe that such contents are the mark of superior quality to purchase a new item instead, thus perpetuating the continued production and demand for animal products. <br /><br />For the record, transitioning to a fully vegan lifestyle, as you seem to be, is far different in my book than justifying the continued consumption of eggs. And, while I'd be thrilled for the world to be vegan, vegetarianism is a noble start; I couldn't agree more with your closing line. <br /><br />That said, I would like to go on record as saying that "Fish are not vegetables!" is actually my quote. Bess is compassionate, witty and intelligent, but I must claim "ownership" b/c it is one of my favorite and most oft-utilized quips ;-).Abby Beanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03060920122127099172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-710373573705518216.post-18937785601060898342010-08-08T06:10:53.301-07:002010-08-08T06:10:53.301-07:00I recently went to 4CV for the first time myself, ...I recently went to 4CV for the first time myself, and holy mole, it is so good! If I lived in NYC full time, I think I'd go as frequently as possible, (i.e. every week!). <br /><br />As for the tag of *almost* vegan, I apply it to myself, because I eat local honey and use beeswax products (allergies and rashy skin and a selfish and unabating addiction)...Having weighed the cost and benefits, this is my personal choice. I also wear wool and leather bought from thrift and vintage stores, or that I bought long before I shut down the cognitive dissonance that allowed me to not want to eat a cow, but still think of leather shoes as some how disconnected from their bovine source. Why would I throw something perfectly good away so that I can buy something new that was made with materials that I am comfortable with? Then I'd be perpetuating behaviors that disturb me as much as the inhumane treatment of animals...But, I know that there are a lot of people in the vegan community who would disagree with these choices. And, that's fine with me. I think we all have to figure out how to make our ethics work within our lives. <br /><br />All that said, eggs from chickens with names are still eggs. And as Bess said, fish are not vegetables! Being a vegetarian is a pretty decent compromise, or at least a promising first step, why not own it as one's own rather than adopting another (perhaps seemingly) more desirable title?arielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03518446873067235303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-710373573705518216.post-67640165062754913722010-07-19T15:37:17.179-07:002010-07-19T15:37:17.179-07:00Wow, that article is, um, well, proof that all kin...Wow, that article is, um, well, proof that all kinds of people can be flaky! I guess she tallied up how many animals she's saved & figured she was owed one? So gross!<br /><br />You sound like a proud, informed, compassionate person; wave that vegan flag & spread the word!Abby Beanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03060920122127099172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-710373573705518216.post-80098198515202636062010-07-19T14:50:28.585-07:002010-07-19T14:50:28.585-07:00Love your insight! You make a great point in there...Love your insight! You make a great point in there is a difference between being a vegan namely for food purposes and approaching veganism from an ethical standpoint. This article below totally illustrates the difference-it's a doozy!<br /><br />http://cocoperez.com/2010-07-18-vegans-wear-fur/?from=PH<br /><br />The more I think about it, because my decisions to give up meat and dairy were not solely because of health but also because of compassion reasons-I support a number of animal rights causes and am active in the vegan community in LA-I think I am okay with calling myself a vegan :)<br /><br />Glad you wrote this post because I have been feeling a little conflicted in terms of what I call myself...I am the first to say that categories are not always productive but since, some things will always hold categories, I might as well put mine to good use :)<br /><br />Yes the weekly dinner parties in LA are really fun...each week has a different culinary theme. coming up is raw vegan breakfast treats and then soul food!!!Bess @ I Dream of Greeniehttp://idreamofgreenieblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-710373573705518216.post-84824230963970771432010-07-19T13:13:37.000-07:002010-07-19T13:13:37.000-07:00P.S. I'm super jealous of your weekly supper c...P.S. I'm super jealous of your weekly supper club. Try out 4CV next time you're in town!Abby Beanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03060920122127099172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-710373573705518216.post-75624262055499382352010-07-19T13:07:16.101-07:002010-07-19T13:07:16.101-07:00Greenie, of course you make sense; fish are not ve...Greenie, of course you make sense; fish are not vegetables! Likewise, eggs are not vegan.<br /><br />While there are some people who choose to simply follow a vegan diet, I believe that being an ethical vegan encompasses a whole lifestyle... and neither should be eating eggs. This isn't extremism, more like truth in labeling. I’ve heard the complaints that such serious classifications scare people away from veganism, but that’s a cop-out; compassion cannot be bullied out of you.<br /><br />The impetus of the vegan movement has nothing to gain by watering down definitions in order to attract a wider audience. If the best someone can do is to go vegetarian, then they should have at it; every little bit helps. But if they continue to eat fish then their choice to utilize a non-applicable label serves no purpose other than to make one person feel better about them self, while countless animals continue to suffer as a result of their actions.Abby Beanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03060920122127099172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-710373573705518216.post-68383987627217677742010-07-19T12:00:21.185-07:002010-07-19T12:00:21.185-07:00First off, this food and supper club sounds phenom...First off, this food and supper club sounds phenom! I go to a weekly vegan supper club party here in LA and it is great food and company.<br /><br />Secondly, I am so glad you posted about the "ovo vegan" tablemates.<br /><br />I am right now at a crux with how I describe my diet.<br /><br />I used to be similar to your table mate but within the last couple months, I have stopped eating eggs and wearing leather.<br /><br />My initial gut reaction was to be hesitant to call myself vegan in case I am doing something wrong...plus I know people take classifications so seriously. Case in point: I used to hate when people who ate seafood called themselves vegetarians. Does that make sense?<br /><br />But many of my friends in the vegan community have told me they think it is okay for me to call myself a vegan and actually encourage it because a lot of my readers are not vegan and they like my less militant more foodie approach to veganism.<br /><br />Would love your insight on this.Bess @ I Dream of Greeniehttp://idreamofgreenieblog.comnoreply@blogger.com